Man, lots to digest from last night's Lost.I'm just going to throw a few things out while I wrap my brain around the timeline. 3 years in the Dharma camp?!?
Horace - we finally got to see more of him. Remember, he was out building Jacob's cabin when Locke stumbled upon him during his time loop / Jacob encounter. At the time he said it was for him and his wife to getaway. But who is his wife at that time? We know he and Amy had the baby together, but in a previous flashback I thought he was actually married to Ben's schoolteacher, Olivia. I'm really confused on the timeline. I'm assuming that Ben is somewhere in camp at the same time Sawyer and the others are there, but maybe he hasn't arrived on the island with his father on the sub yet.
Amy and Horace's baby - is it someone we know? Ethan or maybe even Sawyer? Or was the birth just a vehicle to show the elapse of 3 years, and draw a parallel for the upcoming Sawyer / Juliette / Freckles love triangle (is 3 years long enough to forget about Kate's fine looking rear?)
Amy and Horace's baby - is it someone we know? Ethan or maybe even Sawyer? Or was the birth just a vehicle to show the elapse of 3 years, and draw a parallel for the upcoming Sawyer / Juliette / Freckles love triangle (is 3 years long enough to forget about Kate's fine looking rear?)
The dude with eyeliner - Thanks, Sawyer! I've been calling him that for the past two seasons. Finally someone acknowledged Richard's freaky eye makeup!
This is absolutely an episode that needs to be watched over again. If I see anything else, I'll post it in the comments below... please do the same! Oh yeah, and according to Ben, Charlotte was born in 1979 - so what's she doing walking around as a kid in 1974? Was that a goof, or did Ben have his facts wrong?
**UPDATE
I just rewatched parts of The Man Behind The Curtain from season 3, and Cabin Fever from last season. Both had Horace in the flashbacks. So now I think I have the timeline figured out.
Back me up here:
In 2004 Horace appears to Locke and says the he died 12 years earlier. That would mean he died in 1992, the year of "the purge" (Which we saw in the Man Behind the Curtain episode in season 3). This is when Ben kills his dad, and the others destroy the Dharma Initiative.
The earliest time we know of Horace's whereabouts is when Ben is born in the woods off the highway in Portland. Horace and Olivia just happen to be driving by and witness Ben's mom dying after giving birth. This is sometime around the mid '60s.
In 1974 Horace meets Sawyer for the first time. this is during the time of some sort of peace accord with the others. We also see that Richard Alpert has short hair. Now, when Ben first comes to the island as a young boy, it seems as if he 15 or so. That would put his arrival time right around the same time Jack and company returns to the island (1976).We know from the episode "The Man Behind The Curtain" that the others are attacking the camp on a regular basis when Ben is on the island and that Richard has long hair. Although Olivia is seen as a school teacher, there's no proof that she and Horace are an item. In fact, just because they were driving together in Portland doesn't prove it either - they could just be co-workers or friends, so let's not even factor an Olivia/Horace romance or marriage into the timeline.
OK - My thought is that little kid Ben arrives on the island right after the events that are currently happening to the losties. Perhaps the truce is somehow broken between Dharma and Richard's people. This is why the Others start attacking Dharma right around that time... this could explain why Richard's hair is long from hiding out in the jungle and why he wants to recruit Ben as a sleeper agent to eventually bring down Dharma.
Oh yeah... while trying to figure this out I also noticed that Locke's mother was named Emily. She gave birth to Locke out of wedlock sometime in the late 50's and gave him up for adoption. Ben's mother's name was... Emily. And based on the timeline, the appearance of her age matches. Could Ben and Locke be half-brothers?
I don't really know where to begin here, either- but I'll just get started.
ReplyDeleteLocke's time loop and Horace. Horace said something about dying 12 years earlier, while talking to Locke, chopping down the tree, and building the cabin. He told Locke to find his body, and with the body, Locke found the cabin's blueprints and the location. Horace's nose was bleeding while talking to Locke. Does this mean that he was traveling through time? Did he see his own death, and then somehow freak out?
It was obvious from the start that Juliette and Sawyer had something goin on. WAY TO GO SAWYER! Good acting on both actor's parts to convey their love without blurting it out. Very nice.
On an aside- Reiko Aylesworth! Let me say that again. REIKO AYLESWORTH! The 24 beauty returns to prime time in the best show on TV. Life is complete ;)
I'll have to watch the episode again for more- but it's weird how they all got thrown into different times.
It's also cool to see Faraday snap- 'bout time he shut up ;)
Two more things. Sorry
ReplyDeleteThe statue! Sayid saw it (just the 4 toed foot) while traveling from island to island a couple of seasons ago- WTF?!
Sawyer "I used to lie for a livin'"
Nice.
Yeah, I was pissed they time shifted before checking out the statue!
ReplyDeleteI believe that the baby that was born is Ben, but who the hell knows with this show, so freakin confusing!
ReplyDeleteThe baby can't be Sawyer...something paradoxical about meeting yourself...this is why Charlotte's body disappeared when they flashed to "her time" on the island.
ReplyDeleteRichard is obviously one of the NASTY INDIGENOUS people of the island...but does he not age because he is caught in some time warp also? The LOSTIES are currently out of their time but to anyone who KNOWS them, they will appear to NEVER AGE>
That's all I have right now...my brain hurts
Few Questions here...
ReplyDeleteWho's boats were on the beach with the water bottles?
Who were the people shooting at Sawyer and them as they tried to find the Orchid a couple of episodes back...when they were on the boat?
Is Locke in present time with the people from the plane..with Ben?
I don't think Ben and his father are on the island yet. What happens when all the incidents that have already happened in the past (Ben killing off Dharma, the others taking over) take place? Is everything changed now?
I need answers!!!
I don't think it would be a crazy leap to suggest that perhaps Ben lied about Charlottes birth. Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteI had completely forgoten about Horace Goodspeed. He and his wife were the ones who brought Ben's mom and dad to the hospital and then brought Ben and his Dad Roger to the island. So I assume little Ben is running around somewhere too.
Maybe Jack and the six are returning to that time period b/c they are suppossed to stop Richard and the Others from ruining the Dharma Initiative in "the purge".
Of course this thought of mine and many others about Lost could be completely off b/c I can no longer keep the time periods straight.
Awesome episode but each week I realize how much I have forgotten about previous seasons.
BD
Smokey - the baby can't be Ben, because we saw him born off-island in a flashback, and he came to the island with his dad on the sub.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 9:56 - I think Charlotte didn't move through time because she was dead. You can flash to a time where you already exist: remember Locke saw the light from the hatch he was pounding on in season one and Sawyer saw Claire giving birth. They were both "doubles" in that time.
Anonymous at 10:02 - The boat with the waterbottle belongs to Lapedis and, I presume, Sun when they traveled from the small island back to the main island after the crash (in last week's episode).
Good question about where or "when" Lock and the rest of the losties are now. I assume they all landed in the same year, but maybe not.
Also, Faraday made it clear that no matter what you do in the past, you cannot change future events because the universe will "course correct". So they will not be any help in stopping the purge.
Great comments... I'm going to rewatch this afternoon.
nice thoughts everyone.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to build off of what the one person said about not appearing to age.
When the oceanic 6 came back to the island they were in present time (2008 of whatever)
Jin does discover them but appears the same age as he is in 1974.
Also, Sawyer and Juliet are now in the same house as the Dharma DR we see in all the videos.. same bed and all.. so I say Sawyer has somehow saved the Dharma initiative from Ben's future attacks, therefore Ben doesn't showup after the second crash(maybe dead due to Sawyers prior knowledge of the attack by the others.)Now Sawyer is seen as the leader now! He got a special Jeep instead of the party vans.
I too would of like to see more of the statue.
Ben must of been mistaken about Charlottes year of birth.
okay back to class!
i take my statement about ben being dead due to sawyers knowledge of his attack on the dharma initiave..
ReplyDeletei forgot that Locke saw him back with the new plane victims.
maybe my whole theory just went down the crapper..
The statue is Anubis, Egyptian god of death. He has 4 toes because he is half jackal. He is holding the symbol for life in his right hand and the symbol for afterlife in his left. He normally doesn't hold the symbol for afterlife. Often he is depicted with a sceptor which is the egyptian symbol for power or a set of scales showing the balance of life and death.
ReplyDeleteThis is major. This is why people can come back to life.
Now in some Native American cultures, the jackal was a trickster and could take on human form.
Death's power is often shown as black smoke.
I believe that Richard Alpert is Anubis and can manifest himself as the black smoke. This is why he never ages. That's how Ben used the phone to call the black smoke to help. The smoke was willing to help him because Widmore broke the rules. Or he was able to use the phone to shut off the fences.
It killed the pilot in season one because he wasn't supposed to be the pilot, Lupedis was. It killed Mr. Eko because he was telling everyone he was a priest when he was a killer or because he kept switching places with his brother and he was supposed to die, not his brother. He joined the bad men (for lack of a better phrase) when he was a kid, so his brother could be safe. Then he threw his brother in the plane to save him, which he was supposed to be on the plane and land on the island. Then he took his place as priest.
Now the sonic fences kept out the black smoke and Richard Alpert said the fences can't keep him and his people out. Maybe they know to plug their ears, I don't know. I'm still trying to figure everything out. He may be more vulnerable to sound when he's in the form of the smoke monster, which would be why he spends most of his time as a human. He might just have control of the smoke monster. We've never seen the smoke on the beach. It may have to stay inland.
Widmore said that Locke's mother had a sense of humor naming him John Locke. I googled the name and came up with a philosopher by the same name. Pretty interesting, check it out.
ReplyDeleteBoris- love your reviews, but your last post has an error, I think. you state:
ReplyDelete"Also, Faraday made it clear that no matter what you do in the past, you cannot change future events because the universe will "course correct". So they will not be any help in stopping the purge."
However, Faraday is clearly lying. He bangs on the hatch, and has a conversation with Desmond- and changes the future. Desmond seeks out Elouise Hawking and speaks with her.
Chaos - good point, but you're forgetting that Desmond and Faraday are "different". That's why Faraday had to seek out Desmond, because he is the only one that can "remember" things. As we saw in the episode "The Constant", Desmond is able to travel through his consciousness and somehow connect with events that happen through time. This doesn't work with anyone else.
ReplyDeleteOk- I'll go with that, but I still think Faraday is lying about the whole thing. I believe he thinks that the losties will screw things up if they mess with time, while he is willing to take that chance for Charlotte.
ReplyDeleteI was really hoping faraday would be his own father. Damn!
On Faraday: As the only vehicle for the show to try and explain how this is all happening, he really can't be lying. At most he can be incorrect, but I don't think he says anything he's not certain of. I'm pretty sure Faraday is Darlton's tool to try to explain what the hell is going on.
ReplyDeleteFaraday is going to approach young Charlotte out of desperation. He'll plead and beg and that's why she thinks of him as creepy.
On the statue: Cesar (and I think Ilana) have been on the Island before. In fact, I think they lived back when the 4-toed statue was still standing. I think Cesar is looking for a way to get back to his own time and I wonder if that same mechanism will help get the 815 survivors back to current time.
@Boris I think you're pretty perceptive when it comes to Lost. Clearly it pays to re-watch the "big" episodes. It puts current episodes in context.
Check out http://lostpedia.org/ for more thoughts and information. I love that site.
Any bets we'll see a polar bear push the frozen donkey wheel before the end of the season?
ReplyDeleteTo answer Verge of Chaos... I think Faraday was telling the truth when he said they could not change or stop future events... But out of Desparation he has Desmond go see his mother who seems to be the Time travel guru... How could it hurt? It' was worth a shot... and then he proved himself right, because he warned Charlotte the child only to have her return and die anyway...
ReplyDeleteWhatever happened to the kids (and other passengers) that were kidnapped off the beach on season 1? The ones carrying the teddy bear
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me Lost has there on spin on the whole time travel deal.... where Faraday told everyone what they do in the past cannot change the future (paraphrasing here) if you watch Heroes, Hiro went back in the past to change things that happened in the present or where going to happen in the future.... the one Heroes scene that sticks out happened in Issac Mendez's studio where I think either peter or Muhindeer had all that sting lined up across the studio where all the various timelines over lapped.... no real point here other then I think the two different approaches are interesting and in my opinion both shows seem to have regained their footing... and hey its late and I'm bored as hell at work.... lol
ReplyDeletegreat post
ReplyDelete